Discussion:
Incorporating Supercollider in workflow
sandrovale
2014-06-21 10:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi there,
reading this nice general thread

http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Research-and-training-materials-for-live-coding-td7611656.html

motivated me to ask how you incorporate Supercollider in your recording
workflow.
It's been some times I've been using and studying Supercollider, and I find
it a terrific playground for synthesis, algorithmic sequences, etc., but I
have not being able to incorporate it in my workflow. I don't make
"experimental music" per se', whatever it means: I realize I do more things
related to ambient/IDM/electronica type of stuff, and work mostly in a DAW.
I record songs, if the terminology helps, and pay attention a lot to mixing
related things to make things sound good (which is far from trivial, and it
is a department I find a lot of experimental/academic music lacks), which I
can't imagine doing comfortably inside Supercollider (my limitation, for
sure, though I've tried more than once), but I also like to introduce a lot
of experimental type of sounds. Well, recently I've found myself using a lot
Reaktor or even Max4Live instead of Supercollider, 'cause they are very easy
to introduce in my workflow inside my DAW: they work as VSTs, which allow me
to separate the phase when I'm engineering devices from the phase when I use
them to compose. Just grab them from the list, and you are good to go,
whenever you feel it. With Supercollider I find it more difficult, since
there is the issue of setting up Jack, which is annoying per se, and then
there's the issue of syncing, for anything which is related to patterns. All
of this is clearly solvable, but I find it breaks my workflow very easily,
leading to frustration quickly.
Just to be clear: this is not a rant against Supercollider, which I really
love, and spend a lot of time with, and am a great advocate of. So, the
question is: is there here anybody working in more "mainstream" electronic
music, and incorporating Supercollider in their workflow? What's your
strategy? Do you bounce down sounds from Supercollider all in one session,
and then assemble it later, or else? How do you work with Midi/Osc
sequencing?
I know the questions are vague, so I'll content myself with vague answers.
So any suggestion, a part from "do everything in Supercollider", which I've
already tried, is welcome.
Thanks for reading this.
Alessandro



-----
My album, free download here
http://idmfnetlabel.bandcamp.com/album/metik-paths-idmf037
--
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flo
2014-06-21 11:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by sandrovale
Hi there,
reading this nice general thread
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Research-and-training-materials-for-live-coding-td7611656.html
motivated me to ask how you incorporate Supercollider in your recording
workflow.
It's been some times I've been using and studying Supercollider, and I find
it a terrific playground for synthesis, algorithmic sequences, etc., but I
have not being able to incorporate it in my workflow. I don't make
"experimental music" per se', whatever it means: I realize I do more things
related to ambient/IDM/electronica type of stuff, and work mostly in a DAW.
I record songs, if the terminology helps, and pay attention a lot to mixing
related things to make things sound good (which is far from trivial, and it
is a department I find a lot of experimental/academic music lacks), which I
can't imagine doing comfortably inside Supercollider (my limitation, for
sure, though I've tried more than once), but I also like to introduce a lot
of experimental type of sounds. Well, recently I've found myself using a lot
Reaktor or even Max4Live instead of Supercollider, 'cause they are very easy
to introduce in my workflow inside my DAW: they work as VSTs, which allow me
to separate the phase when I'm engineering devices from the phase when I use
them to compose. Just grab them from the list, and you are good to go,
whenever you feel it. With Supercollider I find it more difficult, since
there is the issue of setting up Jack, which is annoying per se, and then
there's the issue of syncing, for anything which is related to patterns. All
of this is clearly solvable, but I find it breaks my workflow very easily,
leading to frustration quickly.
Just to be clear: this is not a rant against Supercollider, which I really
love, and spend a lot of time with, and am a great advocate of. So, the
question is: is there here anybody working in more "mainstream" electronic
music, and incorporating Supercollider in their workflow? What's your
strategy? Do you bounce down sounds from Supercollider all in one session,
and then assemble it later, or else? How do you work with Midi/Osc
sequencing?
I know the questions are vague, so I'll content myself with vague answers.
So any suggestion, a part from "do everything in Supercollider", which I've
already tried, is welcome.
Thanks for reading this.
Alessandro
-----
My album, free download here
http://idmfnetlabel.bandcamp.com/album/metik-paths-idmf037
--
View this message in context: http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Incorporating-Supercollider-in-workflow-tp7611764.html
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hi,

you could just use miditriggers from ur daw? route audio?
jack is most helpfull..save your templates :D
and its not annoying :D
.
just get into all the automations from your daw which will be logic or
ableton
or protools and hook it up (..with midi).
look into the midi classes.... CCIn is a cool quark for communication
with midi CC type
things.so you could control maybe a sc_synths filter/phase/whatever from
your miditrack.
use all the convinience stuff.
Try to synchronize streams (with pbind? or so)...you could
trigger them to start with a note on and stop them with a note off.
inside maybe conditional logic?

i guess sc is about programming. so if your workflow is interrupted by
this it
is a problem.



could work.


atb flo.

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Igor Medeiros
2014-06-21 13:04:54 UTC
Permalink
hi alessandro
i think there's some nice exemples of sc/daw(logic)/workflow integration on
new cottle book:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/david-michael-cottle/computer-music-using-supercollider-and-logic-pro/ebook/product-21296573.html
Post by flo
Post by sandrovale
Hi there,
reading this nice general thread
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-
these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Research-and-training-
materials-for-live-coding-td7611656.html
motivated me to ask how you incorporate Supercollider in your recording
workflow.
It's been some times I've been using and studying Supercollider, and I find
it a terrific playground for synthesis, algorithmic sequences, etc., but I
have not being able to incorporate it in my workflow. I don't make
"experimental music" per se', whatever it means: I realize I do more things
related to ambient/IDM/electronica type of stuff, and work mostly in a DAW.
I record songs, if the terminology helps, and pay attention a lot to mixing
related things to make things sound good (which is far from trivial, and it
is a department I find a lot of experimental/academic music lacks), which I
can't imagine doing comfortably inside Supercollider (my limitation, for
sure, though I've tried more than once), but I also like to introduce a lot
of experimental type of sounds. Well, recently I've found myself using a lot
Reaktor or even Max4Live instead of Supercollider, 'cause they are very easy
to introduce in my workflow inside my DAW: they work as VSTs, which allow me
to separate the phase when I'm engineering devices from the phase when I use
them to compose. Just grab them from the list, and you are good to go,
whenever you feel it. With Supercollider I find it more difficult, since
there is the issue of setting up Jack, which is annoying per se, and then
there's the issue of syncing, for anything which is related to patterns. All
of this is clearly solvable, but I find it breaks my workflow very easily,
leading to frustration quickly.
Just to be clear: this is not a rant against Supercollider, which I really
love, and spend a lot of time with, and am a great advocate of. So, the
question is: is there here anybody working in more "mainstream" electronic
music, and incorporating Supercollider in their workflow? What's your
strategy? Do you bounce down sounds from Supercollider all in one session,
and then assemble it later, or else? How do you work with Midi/Osc
sequencing?
I know the questions are vague, so I'll content myself with vague answers.
So any suggestion, a part from "do everything in Supercollider", which I've
already tried, is welcome.
Thanks for reading this.
Alessandro
-----
My album, free download here
http://idmfnetlabel.bandcamp.com/album/metik-paths-idmf037
--
View this message in context: http://new-supercollider-
mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/
Incorporating-Supercollider-in-workflow-tp7611764.html
Sent from the SuperCollider Users New (Use this!!!!) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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hi,
you could just use miditriggers from ur daw? route audio?
jack is most helpfull..save your templates :D
and its not annoying :D
.
just get into all the automations from your daw which will be logic or
ableton
or protools and hook it up (..with midi).
look into the midi classes.... CCIn is a cool quark for communication with
midi CC type
things.so you could control maybe a sc_synths filter/phase/whatever from
your miditrack.
use all the convinience stuff.
Try to synchronize streams (with pbind? or so)...you could
trigger them to start with a note on and stop them with a note off.
inside maybe conditional logic?
i guess sc is about programming. so if your workflow is interrupted by
this it
is a problem.
could work.
atb flo.
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Pieter Volger
2014-06-21 14:51:41 UTC
Permalink
I use SC as Sound-Source and/or FX-rack, route it into my analog-modular for tweaking and from the modular into Ableton Live or back into SC for FX and then with Soundflower into Ableton Live. (is Jack preferrable to Soundflower btw??). For other pieces I route SC directly into Ableton Live. I also use this setup live. For more classical pure studio-compositions I record SC-> Reaper and then doing the classical DAW work in Reaper.
Pieter
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Tim Walters
2014-06-21 15:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by sandrovale
Hi there,
reading this nice general thread
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Research-and-training-materials-for-live-coding-td7611656.html
motivated me to ask how you incorporate Supercollider in your recording
workflow.
I run my DAW on a separate computer. Hand-played stuff I record like any
other instrument; automatic material (patterns etc.) I record "wild" (no
sync) and drag into place.

Not the cheapest solution (unless you're like me and your DAW predates
most laptop recording), but it works well for both my pop and
electroacoustic music.


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Martin .
2014-06-21 17:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi Alessandro,

good question! I'd be interested to hear how people who are not pure coders
incorporate sc in their workflow.

I've recently started using max4live to send osc automation from Live to
SC, and I'm really happy it works as smooth as it does. In SC I have a
sampler environment which is all GUI based, so sort of like you say you
just pull up reaktor or something, and if I need to sync something from
Live to SC and record it, I route my midi/hid to ableton and record in
ableton. When I've edited the automation and I'm happy with it I play back
and record in SC (with osc triggering the rec and stop in sc too), like in
old protools with real time bounce. Then I can have a coffee or three if
its a long recording.

This works for me. I enjoy coding but when I produce I need a distance to
it so I have lots of guis and presets for everything. When SC starts it
opens a window with a long menu over all my "apps", and then I go from
there. So, as to workflow, I totally understand if it feels like a drag to
open an editor and start coding when all went so smooth in the synth in the
DAW. Building your own environment that you feel comfortable with in SC
could be a good way to go. After a while, a lot of your code will be
re-useable too, so making a new synth editor, preset menu, whatever will be
copy paste when you need something new. And setting up jack connections....
mmmm, I like presets :) just like as I have lots of ableton files that act
as templates for the thing I want to start doing.

cheers,
martin
Post by sandrovale
Hi there,
reading this nice general thread
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Research-and-training-materials-for-live-coding-td7611656.html
motivated me to ask how you incorporate Supercollider in your recording
workflow.
It's been some times I've been using and studying Supercollider, and I find
it a terrific playground for synthesis, algorithmic sequences, etc., but I
have not being able to incorporate it in my workflow. I don't make
"experimental music" per se', whatever it means: I realize I do more things
related to ambient/IDM/electronica type of stuff, and work mostly in a DAW.
I record songs, if the terminology helps, and pay attention a lot to mixing
related things to make things sound good (which is far from trivial, and it
is a department I find a lot of experimental/academic music lacks), which I
can't imagine doing comfortably inside Supercollider (my limitation, for
sure, though I've tried more than once), but I also like to introduce a lot
of experimental type of sounds. Well, recently I've found myself using a lot
Reaktor or even Max4Live instead of Supercollider, 'cause they are very easy
to introduce in my workflow inside my DAW: they work as VSTs, which allow me
to separate the phase when I'm engineering devices from the phase when I use
them to compose. Just grab them from the list, and you are good to go,
whenever you feel it. With Supercollider I find it more difficult, since
there is the issue of setting up Jack, which is annoying per se, and then
there's the issue of syncing, for anything which is related to patterns. All
of this is clearly solvable, but I find it breaks my workflow very easily,
leading to frustration quickly.
Just to be clear: this is not a rant against Supercollider, which I really
love, and spend a lot of time with, and am a great advocate of. So, the
question is: is there here anybody working in more "mainstream" electronic
music, and incorporating Supercollider in their workflow? What's your
strategy? Do you bounce down sounds from Supercollider all in one session,
and then assemble it later, or else? How do you work with Midi/Osc
sequencing?
I know the questions are vague, so I'll content myself with vague answers.
So any suggestion, a part from "do everything in Supercollider", which I've
already tried, is welcome.
Thanks for reading this.
Alessandro
-----
My album, free download here
http://idmfnetlabel.bandcamp.com/album/metik-paths-idmf037
--
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Incorporating-Supercollider-in-workflow-tp7611764.html
Sent from the SuperCollider Users New (Use this!!!!) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Alessandro Valentino
2014-06-23 08:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi there,
thanks for all the answers. I find particularly useful Tim's and Martin's
one.
@Tim: Do you also send Midi/OSC via an external machine, say for generating
sequences, and then drag into place?
@Martin: I guess than the secret is to invest some time at the beginning to
design the environment... If you feel like sharing some of your code, or
just screenshots of the GUIs, etc.,it'd be great for inspiration.
Cheers,
Alessandro
Post by Martin .
Hi Alessandro,
good question! I'd be interested to hear how people who are not pure
coders incorporate sc in their workflow.
I've recently started using max4live to send osc automation from Live to
SC, and I'm really happy it works as smooth as it does. In SC I have a
sampler environment which is all GUI based, so sort of like you say you
just pull up reaktor or something, and if I need to sync something from
Live to SC and record it, I route my midi/hid to ableton and record in
ableton. When I've edited the automation and I'm happy with it I play back
and record in SC (with osc triggering the rec and stop in sc too), like in
old protools with real time bounce. Then I can have a coffee or three if
its a long recording.
This works for me. I enjoy coding but when I produce I need a distance to
it so I have lots of guis and presets for everything. When SC starts it
opens a window with a long menu over all my "apps", and then I go from
there. So, as to workflow, I totally understand if it feels like a drag to
open an editor and start coding when all went so smooth in the synth in the
DAW. Building your own environment that you feel comfortable with in SC
could be a good way to go. After a while, a lot of your code will be
re-useable too, so making a new synth editor, preset menu, whatever will be
copy paste when you need something new. And setting up jack connections....
mmmm, I like presets :) just like as I have lots of ableton files that act
as templates for the thing I want to start doing.
cheers,
martin
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 12:57 PM, sandrovale <
Post by sandrovale
Hi there,
reading this nice general thread
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Research-and-training-materials-for-live-coding-td7611656.html
motivated me to ask how you incorporate Supercollider in your recording
workflow.
It's been some times I've been using and studying Supercollider, and I find
it a terrific playground for synthesis, algorithmic sequences, etc., but I
have not being able to incorporate it in my workflow. I don't make
"experimental music" per se', whatever it means: I realize I do more things
related to ambient/IDM/electronica type of stuff, and work mostly in a DAW.
I record songs, if the terminology helps, and pay attention a lot to mixing
related things to make things sound good (which is far from trivial, and it
is a department I find a lot of experimental/academic music lacks), which I
can't imagine doing comfortably inside Supercollider (my limitation, for
sure, though I've tried more than once), but I also like to introduce a lot
of experimental type of sounds. Well, recently I've found myself using a lot
Reaktor or even Max4Live instead of Supercollider, 'cause they are very easy
to introduce in my workflow inside my DAW: they work as VSTs, which allow me
to separate the phase when I'm engineering devices from the phase when I use
them to compose. Just grab them from the list, and you are good to go,
whenever you feel it. With Supercollider I find it more difficult, since
there is the issue of setting up Jack, which is annoying per se, and then
there's the issue of syncing, for anything which is related to patterns. All
of this is clearly solvable, but I find it breaks my workflow very easily,
leading to frustration quickly.
Just to be clear: this is not a rant against Supercollider, which I really
love, and spend a lot of time with, and am a great advocate of. So, the
question is: is there here anybody working in more "mainstream" electronic
music, and incorporating Supercollider in their workflow? What's your
strategy? Do you bounce down sounds from Supercollider all in one session,
and then assemble it later, or else? How do you work with Midi/Osc
sequencing?
I know the questions are vague, so I'll content myself with vague answers.
So any suggestion, a part from "do everything in Supercollider", which I've
already tried, is welcome.
Thanks for reading this.
Alessandro
-----
My album, free download here
http://idmfnetlabel.bandcamp.com/album/metik-paths-idmf037
--
http://new-supercollider-mailing-lists-forums-use-these.2681727.n2.nabble.com/Incorporating-Supercollider-in-workflow-tp7611764.html
Sent from the SuperCollider Users New (Use this!!!!) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Website:
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"Una volta delegato il potere, questo non puo' piu' essere revocato"
Tim Walters
2014-06-23 18:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by sandrovale
Hi there,
thanks for all the answers. I find particularly useful Tim's and
Martin's one.
@Tim: Do you also send Midi/OSC via an external machine, say for
generating sequences, and then drag into place?
I never have, because my elements tend to be generated rather than
fixed, and because I like to work on them when I'm not in my studio. But
there's no reason you couldn't (and you wouldn't have to drag it
afterward if you did--it would already be in sync, at least for MIDI
values of "sync").


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adam4
2014-06-22 18:23:26 UTC
Permalink
i'd say getting your ideas down in the fastest way possible to start with is
good - then if you want to render anything using sc synths you can do that
and assemble in your daw - that way you don't have to worry about technical
setup issues interrupting your inspiration - that will have happened already
then you are just rendering the parts you want

similarly if you want to use sc patterns for randomness etc you can get as
much as possible assembled in your daw first, then render a few other parts
in sc to finish off - it's very common in electronic arts to use
placeholders - so when you haven't rendered a part yet - make a quick part
with a vst preset that sounds similar to what you want , then tweak it at
the end.

when you have the structure of a track together in this way it can be fairly
easy to go back and fill in the gaps





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